tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post109772655488260922..comments2023-05-03T10:49:26.807-05:00Comments on THEE FAULTED BLOG: Jesus is not your GirlfriendTim Faultedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14661891731862299512noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-5725749534976026992009-01-06T19:47:00.000-06:002009-01-06T19:47:00.000-06:00Sam,Truthfully, I have no beef w/ what you're sayi...Sam,<BR/>Truthfully, I have no beef w/ what you're saying. I agree that there are shallow, stupid worship songs that do not talk about God's holiness as they should - or when they do, they water it down. So, you've go not argument from me (or any real Arminian) on that.<BR/><BR/>By beef wasn't with Tim's assesment of worship songs, my questions came about how he defines a good worship song - as it seemed to be around whether espoused Reformed theological positions. I guess I just see many great songs that aren't at all Reformed...after all, not everyone can be Derek Webb :)<BR/><BR/>Cheers brother. Hope everyone's Christmas went well.Tom 1sthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16281465700829698800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-47041912938330680012009-01-05T23:37:00.000-06:002009-01-05T23:37:00.000-06:00Tom-sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your...Tom-sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your comment. I'm glad it's taken me a while though because it's helped me to stop and reflect. At first I was about to react to the statement that love is God's defining characteristic. My thought was, "Many verses speak about God's love, but only one says 'God IS love' (1 Jn 4:8). What about the verses that say 'Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord'?" But then I thought about how Jesus said in John 13:34 that by our love for one another all men will know we are disciples; love should be OUR defining characteristic. And yet, without holiness no one will see the Lord" (Heb 12:14). And yet, I agree, love must be God's defining characteristic. <BR/><BR/>But what about that love and what about that passage "God is love"? Two verses later, 1 John 4:10, it says "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." We know God's love because we see the sacrifice of His own Son so that His holy wrath, His righteous anger against sin could be "propitiated" or appeased. I think that's the whole issue of the post. "God is love and God loves! Let us sing! But without talking about His holiness, our sinfulness and His righteousness; without singing about the horrible suffering of the Cross, we make love cheap. I think that's the point, or at least that's my beef with many contemporary worship songs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-53117175560787467042008-12-30T09:45:00.000-06:002008-12-30T09:45:00.000-06:00Thanks for the link to the Collective. Stryper roc...Thanks for the link to the Collective. Stryper rocks!Jason Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08059231128332598156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-30679814900216702522008-12-21T22:51:00.000-06:002008-12-21T22:51:00.000-06:00I guess that's the difference between a Calvinist ...I guess that's the difference between a Calvinist and an Arminian. <BR/><BR/>I don't see that assertion in scripture. God is Love - that is His defining characteristic. I know that probably doesn't sound all that 'sovereign' or 'masculine' in a reactionary SBC culture (I'm not accusing you of that, I'm merely making a broader observation!), but it's true nonetheless. <BR/><BR/>There is no scriptural warrant for subordinating anything, especially love, to glory. Holy love is how the members of the Trinity relate to one another and holy love is what the trinity invites us into. <BR/><BR/>But again, that's the difference btwn a Calvinist and an Arminian. <BR/><BR/>PS - please don't misunderstand - I do think glory is important!Tom 1sthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16281465700829698800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-78868207580024769332008-12-18T20:29:00.000-06:002008-12-18T20:29:00.000-06:00Not to delineate too far from the subject of music...Not to delineate too far from the subject of music in worship, but I would say that God's love is subordinate to glory because God's glory is "infinite beauty and greatness of His manifold perfections" (courtesy of Piper -I'm sure you'll appreciate that Tom). So, if you see God's glory as the display of His perfect love, mercy, compassion, justice, righteousness and holiness, then one of those parts is indeed subordinate to the whole. That's just a side for you though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-22079741976818858922008-12-17T22:49:00.000-06:002008-12-17T22:49:00.000-06:00I guess the wording is still confusing to me, b/c ...I guess the wording is still confusing to me, b/c it still seems like he's reducing everything to glory. <BR/><BR/>That said, know him and I don't so I'll take your word for it. <BR/><BR/>But the main point of my response was that he is right - Christian music is often atrocious, even when it is lyrically sound; it's often barely able to call itself art.Tom 1sthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16281465700829698800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-19006268295053720122008-12-16T09:01:00.000-06:002008-12-16T09:01:00.000-06:00I do not think Jonathan meant to say that love is ...I do not think Jonathan meant to say that love is subordinate to God's Glory, but rather, that love is just one attribute of God, and must be balanced with his anger, glory, wrath, and sacrifice of his son, so we get a more full picture. He said "Reveal that God’s love is just one aspect of God’s many-splendored glory." Not "Reveal that God’s love must be reduced to only His glory." I think that is an important distinction.Tim Faultedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14661891731862299512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3207090717465549067.post-29402746062909092962008-12-16T07:57:00.000-06:002008-12-16T07:57:00.000-06:00So you want them to write a Calvinist love son?......So you want them to write a Calvinist love son?....ha! It seems most of CCM are not Calvinist, so I foresee that as a problem. <BR/><BR/>I would challenge your reduction of love to one aspect of God's many faceted glory. I simply do not see the Bible describing it that way. That's really, to me, a Piper-ish kind of reductionism that I have been repeatedly told is biblical, but I've seen no proof of it in the Bible. <BR/><BR/>Not that glory is not important! Surely it is. I just don't see the reduction of other attributes, namely love, to glory.<BR/><BR/>But in the end, you are right. Most Christian love songs are cheap and theologically incapable.Tom 1sthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16281465700829698800noreply@blogger.com